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Report 895
Report #895 Skillset: Shofangi Skill: Crunch Org: Shofangi Status: Rejected Oct 2012 Furies' Decision: Envoy agrees it's fine as is after I explained how it works. Monks who don't understand how it works aren't using it effectively is the problem. I will make the AB help file clearer. Problem: Shofangi's skill of crunch is ostensibly the skillset's instakill, providing instant death under the proper circumstances. However, due to the skill's nature, those circumstances are far too mercurial and improbable to arise in anything outside of controlled arena spars. In order to pull off a crunch, a Shofangi must first grapple the head (using either lock/choke - both basic kata grapples which do not provide momentum gain) and then perform the crunch act. The act of crunching drains momentum. This setup leads to a significant issue - acrobatics not withstanding. In order to attempt a single crunch a Shofangi must perform three forms. One to raise momentum, one to grapple, one to crunch. That is three forms. In the process, a Shofangi can use no hindering afflictions (as all cost or stall momentum) in either form one or two. In form three, crunch itself takes all limb balances. If crunch is unsuccessful, it does minor damage and wounds, but causes no affliction. In order to successfully crunch, a target needs to not cure for about 10 attempts at crunching. (That is, 30 forms) If the target does cure, crunch does not seem to function. The second issue with crunch is that, due to the above chain required to pull it off, it does nothing to progress any form of kill - including itself. As an attack which drains momentum while causing no afflictions, it is counterproductive to use it unless it is an exclusive attempt to achieve the crunch kill. As noted, against a defending target, even that is difficult due to rebounding, hindering, and curing. In short: Crunch is unusable in the present state. 0 R: 0 Solution #1: Retain crunch in current form. If momentum is above 4, then allow crunch to apply a concussion, if below 4, shattered jaw. If the opponent suffers from a concussion and your momentum is at 5, then have crunch cost 5p and kill the target. 0 R: 0 Solution #2: Change crunch to be a modifier for the stomp ability within Shofangi. Ka cost: 1400. If target is prone with three or four limbs broken, kill the target. 0 R: 0 Solution #3: Adjust Crunch to afflict as in solution 1. If at 5 momentum and the target suffers from three regeneration or mending afflictions on the head, cost 5p and kill. (Mending afflictions currently possible to afflict: Slitthroat (3p), broken jaw, broken skull. Regeneration: None. Therefore, the proposed affliction of crunch is necessary in order to make this viable.) Player Comments: ---on 9/26 @ 21:14 writes: It should be noted that Concussion does have a myrtle cure, not only regeneration. This will make the first/third proposal far less deadly then it appears at first. ---on 9/26 @ 21:15 writes: Also, noted, all of these will require an expenditure of 5p in order for the monk to use the instant kill. Solution 2 through boosting. 1/3 through an added power cost. None of these should be as straightforward and easy to pull off as Gahtirak'sho, which is the closest similarity ---on 9/27 @ 01:53 writes: After discussing it a fair amount with Hiriako I, believe it or not, support this change. The one thing I would need to know before going with suggestion one is how long concussion and fractured skull take to cure from start to finish. ---on 9/27 @ 04:37 writes: Concussion is a myrtle cure, fractured skull is a mending cure. (Stupidity equivalent) ---on 10/8 @ 12:43 writes: I think if we're going to go with solution 1, the best course of action is to -not- allow damagedhead to pass as a prerequisite. Unlike concussion it -is- a regeneration cure and might be a little too easy. Would it be reasonable to request that the target is also sprawled in order to give the concussion as well? ---on 10/8 @ 15:21 writes: Fair enough on the rejection of damaged head. Sprawled for concussion I would be against however, as Crunch is a grapple ender, and we cannot sprawl with a kick. ---on 10/10 @ 19:26 writes: The damaged head concern is a valid one, so I'd like that addressed. Solution 1 is fine though ---on 10/10 @ 20:14 writes: Aye, and I agree with it. It can be removed. I'll change solution one. ---on 10/13 @ 15:19 writes: Solution #1 supported, though have some dislike for the power only being taken if successful aspect. To compare, if a Cavalier attempts a Skewer and the target has cured the required affliction/wound states, they still lose the power. ---on 10/14 @ 13:17 writes: The only issue I have with that, Ush, is that to then use Crunch in the first place it'd be 5p, as it's currently both setup and kill. ---on 10/14 @ 19:16 writes: Hmm, if boosting raised a flag, it could maybe work? Unboosted crunch at mo5 and concussed = shatterjaw/concussion reapplied, a boosted crunch form at mo5 and concussed = instakill? Anyhoo, still support the change. ---on 10/16 @ 03:37 writes: That is rough, if only because it'd require is to take 3 forms between concussion and instakill. Concussion (-1 momentum), momentum gain (to 5), grapple (doesn't gain momentum), crunch. I wouldn't support that. It wouldn't be viable unless they're locked and already in a situation that'll guarantee death. ---on 11/17 @ 00:20 writes: Envoy agrees it's fine as is after I explained how it works. Monks who don't understand how it works aren't using it effectively is the problem. I will make the AB help file clearer.